I have to admit that Philippians 1 often comes to mind as I look at these mega-messes the American church is in. Harvest Bible Chapel - Elgin Campus - Fall 2011 Women's Campus Groups The Elgin, Illinois campus of Harvest Bible Chapel is is lead by Senior Pastor James MacDonald. jyjames: How to do church that has nothing to do with Jesus, then. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. When we separate believers into clergy vs. laity, pulpit vs. pew, us vs. them failing to equip and mobilize the saints to do the work of the ministry we miss what God intended for His Church and fall short of living in the Kingdom of Heaven here and now. Rescuing those who have ears to hear is the best any of us can do. So thats just an opinion. again and again and again. ME GREAT WHITE HUNTER! The office of an elder is not to be taken lightly. Because MacDonald earned it. For me I choose to pray and let God work, he never ceases to amaze especially when he answers prayer. Heard somewhere; Hell never be a great man.. There have been countless decisions made for Christ at Camp Harvest, along with the immeasurable life-transforming impact on countless students, men, women, and families. I rather doubt that they were able to get it right in the end. Thats why the early church had congregational governance, rather than elder rule polity the Body of Christ had a say in who the church leaders were. It didnt reveal anything new. Info on the photo is apparently wrong. As Lauren Diagle says it so very well: Im losing my religion/ To find You/ Im losing my religion, and finding something new/ Cause I need something different/ And different looks like You/. Some things are great for a public airing, where its completely right. I doubt that the facts will stop MacDonald from making an unrepentant comeback. Maybe the good old fashioned seven deadly sins list would be a good list to start with. There does seem to be something in Dallass attitude of a disregard for those who donated the hundreds of millions to make the whole Harvest phenomenon work. Its a modern proverb that in organizations characterized by power differentials, mistreatment flows downhill. Its not some future harm. Why? They are set in place as the shepherds of Gods people, and thus are the care takers of the spiritual needs of the church. You should make your case by offering proof. Zero current power holders at Willow Creek Community Church have uttered a single word condemning the sexual crimes of founder and 42 year leader Bill Hybels. Identity, faith, sexuality, and gender--come learn what God's Word says about these topics in light of our current culture. So at least in theory there are checks and balances. not violent Behind him, an ancient city unfurled. Most were started by a mere man who was convinced that his mission had more of a corner on the Truth than the rest. If I were you, I would review what happened at Mars Hill and the Mark Driscoll implosion. Gee, how much money are they making on this deal? In celebration, we hosted Summer Revival at our Elgin campus. They stated goal is to also expose hypocrisy and arrogance. Didnt Dallas or is there another Jenkins son? I figure whenever Paul was speaking to us through Scripture, he was drawing from his personal knowledge of the Kingdom of God rather than what he thought about it. We have millions of church folks in America who say they would die to protect the Bible, but not many actually read it! He claimed he felt God "laying on his heart" that "in several years The Chosen was going to be what people thought of when they pictured the disciples." More But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD, I wait for God my Savior; my God will hear me. Micah 7:5-7, It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes. Psalm 118:9, Thus says the Lord: Cursed is the man who trusts in man Jeremiah 17:5. That, in my humble, fallible opinion, explains much of the evil that has taken place in this world. So I come here to learn, share solace and insights, and tell the odd bear joke. As if someone who chooses to remain anonymous has no right to speak. If you had anything, Dallas, youd have shared it. It was not just Jmac who was enriching himself. Thats too deep to answer. Given His choice of companionship last time He was here, your friend from that Bible study might be shocked. It is not elaborate but adequate for what we seek to do for Gods Kingdom. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. where leaders humbly look around for those whom they can help, trying to be the last, not the first, putting their reputations, careers, and lives on the line if necessary In 2012, after several decades of developing the worship culture at Harvest, the Vertical Church Band was born. Harvest Christian Fellowship is a megachurch in Riverside, California. Ego-stroking that includes WOMAN, SUBMIT!!!! Maybe Christianity in all its forms has reached the Tipping Point Where enough believers realize their belief doesnt work for them anymore and Christianity will fade away? I just found out about it a few minutes ago. Announcements. I just wonder how much of my tithes went to support their gambling problem. Only if this does not work are you to turn him away as a unbeliever. Cool bands, espresso coffee, relevant sermons, fun and fellowship, etc. Hang on. We swore our allegiance to him. Thousands came and all seven campuses hosted these spectacular services all at one location! Jenkins's career is focused on faith-based media. That is one video that I wold love to post. A few final remarks concerning the pastors. Hosting Harvest America in your church is a unique and powerful way for the gospel to reach people in your community too." James MacDonald , Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel "There is no questions that Greg Laurie is making a huge impact for Christ and that lives are being changed by the thousands through Harvest America. But, assuming Paul would be cheering them on nevertheless, that opens up a door for whoever to bring in whatever in attempts to do church (and thats exactly what we have in America). 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. The lawsuit also claims that beginning in 2018, a pastor at one of Harvest's campuses began working with a "disgruntled" former Harvest worker, filmmaker Dallas Jenkins, to solicit letters. Bridget: I dont know, Ken. He is already in the process of trying to reboot his digital ministry (WITW)and is romancing wealthy donors in Naples, FL from the $1.2M home in Naples that Harvest rented for him. God will not, will not let you go. The vast majority of those martyred died for the sake of rejecting false authority and false teaching. PJ, with the loss of religious heritage a forgone conclusion, I suspect they will next be raping our children of their identities, if they havent already. Oh, they couldnt get away with that completely. A narcissist is very good at manipulating people, and very patient. Since then, the output of Christ-adoring songs from various worship team members has continued to accelerate. No more Moses behind a veil. Who started Harvest Bible Chapel? But if conflict is the goal, keep on keeping on. Like they just made a technical foul in a game. Jmac is an uncare bear, so is Dallas Jenkins for that matter. honest, at personal cost. . And in January, Moody installed Mark Jobe as the 10 th President of the Moody Bible Institute, replacing Thornton who had served as interim president. At a lot of these churches, you try and start an unapproved Bible study on the side, theyll shut it down or insist on putting an approved church leader in control. Founded in 1988, it has grown to seven campuses in the Chicago metropolitan area. mostly because God doesnt need professional christians and their institution in the first place.. he has no tore proof to offer me. I mean, how could you be labeled Christian without giving Jesus a little bit of credit?! One can only guess at the motive behind their inaction, but even with the most basic discernment skills one could easily surmise that the money train was at the heart. john, i truly suspect that the only difference between my friends & family i described above and the grace-filled believer you describe is window dressing: vocabulary used when speaking, a smiley face, a tone of voice, body language. All of these men, who were deeply involved long-term under visible, ungodly leadership have a lot to answer for. Why would anyone want to kill a magnificent creature like that? As for Noevangelicals point that no-one on earth is so qualified, that is equally specious. Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them after all, that in case of health problems that make one unable to serve, they are quickly forgotten, that the great majority of those friendships have a tendency to evaporate or even turn to shunning if put to the test; that it was all a grand illusion, after all the time, effort and loyalty invested. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? If people develop So theyll speak of doin church together, or kingdom life, or some such nonsense. said THATS what Jesus did for YOU!. It looks like a church with terminal stage 4 cancer. Law Prof: the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments. I firmly believe we are experiencing another reformation. at one time run an online poker site? I do not believe this is an endorsement of P&P, but I do believe this shows fear. Samuel Conner: I wonder whether it might not be better to simply abandon the entire property-owning paradigm and return to the original practice of meeting in public places (for large groups) and in homes (for small groups). As Jenkins mentions in the above Instagram post, the cast and crew are on their second day of filming the Bible's 'Feeding of the Five Thousand' story (F5K). This, along with the embracing of the whole seeker-friendly, mega-church model caused us to leave the church and people we loved, difficult as it was to explain. ++++++++++++++. Im told love covers over a multitude of sins. Today Harvest Bible Chapel is a family of Christ-adoring worshipers on multiple campuses throughout Chicagoland. I must be having a rough night. This is no different then the very worst of false teachers in 2019. He already gets $500K tax free per year in deferred comp, plus reportedly around $200K tax free in parsonage allowance. With so much at stake, it can be very tempting to cut corners for the sake of what is viewed as a larger good. I dont think so. Thats really the point. Many needy men get their egos stroked, while the women see through the charade. That is part of our fallen world. He is my Fortress (part 2) Posted on July 11, 2009 by Jeff Block. Someone asked How high does this go? It was not just Jmac who was enriching himself. As for your dig at anonymous people, you are hoping to do the same thing. I am not saying that I am a proponent of hierarchy. . I read an article yesterday about small mainstream churches driven to the wall by the migration to the megas being forced to lease their vacant during the week facilities to small businesses in order to generate enough income to keep the doors open. TS00: Never, and I mean never, have I heard someone say, I would leave, but I just cant survive without the gifted teaching. Ive felt sins breakers dashing, They all were making out pretty large with the tithes of people who thought they were giving to good causes. Ishy: These churches treat women so badly, but promise men all sorts of things, Matt Chandler says I preach to men. He calls female believers at TVC our girls while hes ensnares them with the beauty of complementarity., NJ: Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them at allit was all a grand illusion. This will always happen, there is no way to avoid it. Many a victim of domestic or spiritual abuse might have been better protected by understanding this reality. Where is the elder who stands up and admits, this thing was a wicked, immoral, money-making scheme, corrupting and drawing in people with the lure of mammon and using the money of naive, giving individuals, many of whom gave sacrificially to honor God? Who knows? Yes, Dee, we must all fight to preserve the right to arm bears! There is also this interesting statement by Ignatuius (martyred in 108 AD): LET EVERYONE REVERE THE DEACONS AS JESUS CHRIST, THE BISHOP AS THE IMAGE OF THE FATHER, AND THE PRESBYTERS AS THE SENATE OF GOD AND THE ASSEMBLY OF THE APOSTLES. The pastor was grooming me to be an elder, made hints that I could take over for him someday. This is no different then the very worst of false teachers in 2019. Wasnt it Groucho Marx who once quipped, I would never join an organization who would have me as a member? He claimed to be a guy who could show people the way. The evidence points to a scam designed to benefit one person only. The need for such men is apparent. We all are that person which is why we still need Jesus daily to save us from our continuing sin patterns in our life. I knew of one really good church in Chapel Hill (Chapel Hill Bible Church) for years ago. That brings back a memory I havent thought about for years. Instead, all the surviving records appear to show the Church was liturgical and sacramental from the beginning, with established offices of bishops, priests, and deacons. You wanted your letter to remain in the dark and hoped that no one would know of your hidden statement. Muff Potter: And if they refuse to see that these guys are nothing more than carnival barkers and mountebanks? The wheels of justice turn slowly. I am there; have been close to 8-years now. what are these things you see in such people that you identify as being grace-filled? Theres an AUTHENTICITY in there. seeing the beauty of the deposit of God in them. (In less than a year, he has doubled attendance.) Thats the reason Adams concocted his scheme. No wonder why Harvest is in such a mess with leaders like you. trust God and not your own self. Dallas, I want to also say in all gentleness- I know youd like to be in control but you cant be. Max: And to link them together as a Body of Christ, each one uniquely gifted to be a part of the whole something the institutional church just doesnt appear to get.Whose job is the ministry?Every believer has a part!When we separate believers into clergy vs. laity, pulpit vs. pew, us vs. them failing to equip and mobilize the saints to do the work of the ministry we miss what God intended for His Church and fall short of living in the Kingdom of Heaven here and now.Jesus talked a LOT about living in the Kingdom we would do well to read His words living in the church doesnt always mean living in the Kingdom.Based on my 70-year snapshot of the institutional church, theres a vast difference in what Christ describes vs. what we have put together in this thing we call church. Someone should also dig into the incident regarding the video of Mel Gibsons Passion of the Christ that was shown to HCA ELEMENTARY school children without any warning or notice to parents in the first year of the schools history during Holy Week. It could very well be that Christianity is at the tipping point where believers realize that they are doing church without God where they have put their faith in religious systems of assorted belief and practice, rather than building a personal relationship with Christ. Sadly, many have not served well. Amen to all those who have written shame on you., roebuck: nobody goes there anymore its too crowded. Yogi Berra, Im surprised mega churches ever become crowded since You can observe a lot by just watching. -Yogi Berra. Sadly, I was guilty of the same in my day, taking the word of the pastor that those who left us were never one of us. Harvest Bible Chapel is an evangelical Christian megachurch in Rolling Meadows, Illinois. Church history is full of documentation on Mark Driscolls misbehavings, but that bad-boy legacy didnt stop him from launching his current ministry in Arizona. 3/2/2023 - 9:30am-11:30am. Its your choice. About a year ago, Jenkins stepped off the Moody Board of Trustees. ++++++++++++++++++. Fred not only took out debt to fund new purchases, he took out additional debt on already encumbered buildings. That changed on Friday. And if this instance is questionable, then all posts and claims are questionable and credibility goes out the window all because Dee knows best for everyone and will not allow discussion after making claims with no supporting evidence. We see it mentioned on a few occasions in Scripture where elders were appointed in every city. He is best known as the creator, director and co-writer of The Chosen, the first multi-season series about the life of Jesus of Nazareth.. Jenkins's career is focused on faith-based media. For some, that would be a great option. There is no question that MacDonald was running the elders. But as long as theres sin, there will be plenty of work to do to shine a light in the dark places of Christendom. Not at all. Having experienced the unique life-changing work that God does when we interrupt our typical routines, our leaders began searching the Midwest for land suitable toward building a camp, or property with an existing camp. Because I was asked to consider serving on the elder board there three days before I leftand the topic of 1Tim 3 wasnt brought up. God bless you. Reported that Camp Harvest lost over $200,000 in 2016. Yep, 90-days would have been about the right time to bail out before their resume became tainted. While some noble souls may have stayed longer thinking they could make a difference and persuade JMac to be a better man, the wise ones would have realized this to be an impossible task and took the first opportunity to get while the gettin was good. Living in what the people of Chicagoland call "the northwest suburbs" theologian Scot McKnight and his daughter, teacher Laura Barringer had a front row seat when things began unraveling at Harvest Bible Chapel and Willow Creek Community Church, and furthermore were acquainted with many of the people who became a part of our daily Twitter and blog feeds about both stories. If bolstering the credibility of truth-tellers is a problem to you, your commitments are misplaced (to put it mildly). A person who thinks they are qualified, is someone who may need to take some time to discern whether thats true. The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. i mean, why does it matter, any more than what elastigirl thinks, or what Max thinks, or what any of the other cast characters thinks? Bayloy University Medical Center, 3500 Gaston Ave., Dallas, TX 75246 carlos_bll@yahoo.com Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Diocese of Chicago and Detroit Bishop Peter Loukianoff 4/26/2019 Community Bible Church Ed Newton and Sean Metcalf 2477 N. 1604 East San Antonio TX 78232 5/1/2018 Harvest Bible Chapel Tampa Bay Rev. I prayed for your father-in-law and your family just now. The other 30 Elders and 12 XLT members will, likewise, move on to other ministry opportunities. Regarding the tragic murder of that bear, I wouldnt be too rough on JMac perhaps he was using that as a witness to draw in rough boys from the streets of Chicago. I do apologize to Dallas, and to anyone I may have misled with my faulty information. No. (Many self-claimed Reformed do not really know or embrace the God their theology demands, so its not an issue.) Every believer has a part! Its Greshams law applied to religion: bad drives out good. View All. True. You have also put a few of the people fighting for the cause of God change through the ringer with some of your comments to them on twitter fb. I can understand your desire not to become a public figure. yup, great biblical example here! But nowadays I find myself wondering what that even means. Our former pastor was not only being paid far more than the community and congregational average, we were always showering them with paid vacations, new clothing for the kids and cash gifts. In April of 2021, following an extensive search and urgent prayer, the Elders of Harvest Bible Chapel announced the new Lead Teaching Pastor to be Dr. Jeff Bucknam. elastigirl: Honest question: why does it matter what Paul thinks? I wonder whether it might not be better to simply abandon the entire property-owning paradigm and return to the original practice of meeting in public places (for large groups) and in homes (for small groups). Both Steve Carter and Jenkins waited for public outcry and then expressed their moral outrage. There are many claims on this blog but very little proof from original sources, only alleged copies and pastes. I hope that brings you some hope and encouragement today. In April 2016, Harvest acquired a permanent church facility in Aurora to allow the Aurora Campus to continue to grow, both in number and effectiveness in reaching people for Christ. I believe if Jesus was here today, He would be sitting around the campfire drinking beer with the boys! Max responding properly (thats all I will say). I just found out about it a few minutes ago. Ill have to ruminate on that a while. No announcement, no warning, just Have something I want you to see. Then suddenly Boom, there it was on the screen. Unless it was a danger to someone. PRESBYTER = ELDER = OVERSEER = BISHOP = PASTOR = SHEPHERD. We have seen that the octopus has many arms, from mega-churches to major christian publications to all of the organizations that feed the monster. I couldnt post that letter due to my absolute disgust at the depths to which MacDonald has sunk. All kidding aside, may you, Jessica, Ryan Mahoney, Dee Parsons, any many others who are continuing to fight the good fight be richly blessed. This statement just doesnt sound much like what Jesus talked to the twelve about. New TWW post. They all rest on the character of the persons involved. Who are you to tell people to shut up anyway? Instead, the cowriters hope that the show will encourage viewers to read the gospels with renewed passion. Wow. We all know who is trustworthy, mature and wise to go to for advice or counsel. And particularly sad to see younger church folks not benefiting from the council of senior saints. At regiment and higher scale, the CO is at the rear, managing subordinate commanders with the aid of his staff officers. My understanding is that Driscoll also consulted with Gateway. Wartburgers, perhaps they are coming to a church near you! SiteSeer: Is there a foolproof system that cant be gamed? He lied. not greedy for money Its true, though, this is kind of an agonized therapy for me, and I am sincere. A shepherd does not own the sheep, but a hireling, responsible to the true owner for seeing after them, protecting them, helping them to make their way to new pastures and safe water when the old become bare. This is indeed the plan of Satan, IMO, but when you try to suggest such a thing you are usually scoffed at as a conspiracy theorist. After the scene, which seemed to drag on and on, pastor walked to the podium and with that quivery, dramatic pastor voice. This is not a widely understood concept, nor do many consider it at all. Vincent is a coward: came to an old thread less likely to be read and didnt stick around to answer for his comment. 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